Michael Haydn

Interview by Jonathan Leonard.

Michael Haydn of Emagic was kind enough to sit down for a few minutes during a very busy NAMM 2001 convention. Sonik admin Jonathan Leonard interviews Michael on various topics not limited to SoundDiver 3.0. The atmosphere around the Emagic booth was one of excitement and industry. But for all the buzz and success happening for Emagic these days, Michael proved to be enthusiastic, accessable and thoroughly cool. Just like his wicked software...

I took great pleasure in meeting the person who had helped me build my own sound libraries and render compositions in Logic Audio.

Jonathan: I am here with Michael Haydn here in sunny Anaheim, California. I have a number of questions for him. Lets talk about some of the new features in SoundDiver 3.0, how is this different from 2.0?

Michael: Its very much different; the look changed, its much nicer on the eyes, its more like Logic 4.x and we have introduced the entire Logic Audio key commands window. All the key command window features.

Jonathan: Sweet. I saw that. You have the midi learn...

Michael: Just like it, its the same code actually. And the biggest thing is the fader box support. So you have the possibillity to learn the entire message. And there also is an easier approach if you have one of the supported, specifically supported fader boxes like Motor Mix from CM Automation or the SAC-2k from Radikal. You can use them, just like drag and drop with the mouse. With these boxes you also get automatic labelling on the LCD, you get also feedback so if you move the fader on the screen, its going to move on the box itself. So this is a really nice feature because normally people, say, I'm not going to use an editor/librarian because I want to touch something. I want to have my fingers on something with a tactile interface.

Jonathan: Perfect. Excellent. I saw you dragging and dropping stuff- its so intuitive. It totally takes the pain out of programming. You know alot of people say emagic stuff- you gotta be brilliant, you gotta be a doctor (laughs), steep learning curve...but no, its not that bad. And you also have the little tool tips there...

Michael: Yeah the tool tips is new there so you just move the mouse on something like a parameter, actually, in the device window and after a while you get a small window showing some details about it. This is also why tool tips offer an option to disable the numeric display where all the parameters you are going to be able to see. Normally you have to move the mouse around to get the right value, because you know all these numbers on the screen they are so ugly it disturbs the visual appearance.

Jonathan: Thats a good idea! What kind of things are happening in version 3.0 with autolink and logic audio?

Michael: Autolink didn't change actually because we have a new system called SDL which is Studio Description Language. Actually we announced it last year but we had to delay it because Apple is doing something very similar and we wanted to synchronize with them so we’ll come out with a system which is compatible. So this system will have a text file describing the entire studio and devices; which midi channels they use, which ports they have, which banks, and how patches are called, the patch names. So SoundDiver will be a publisher and Logic will be a subscriber. Its similar to the OMS Name Manager, but simpler because it is a text file the user can modify with any kind of text editor.

Jonathan: So how many devices is SoundDiver up to? Its gotta be alot!

Michael: We added lots of new devices. With 3.0 we had 500 and now with 3.01 we have more than 520 devices.

Jonathan: Wow, that must take alot of people, programmers continuously collaborating to make sure that all these devices are not only supported, and new ones being added but then, some of these devices get updated like a Kurzweil K2600. Every time there is a new operating system revision, new features to add...how many programmers do you have to do all this?

Michael: Not so many actually. I am the SoundDiver group executive and there is another full time person who does SoundDiver developing and the rest is done by freelancers. So we have 7 freelancers. We also have cooperations with manufacturers like Line 6 and Access. We have an SDK (software development kit) for developers and we help them with the SDK as you can see with the Virus model...its very nice. Its a different look.

Jonathan: They were able to customize it and stick in their own graphics...

Michael: They want to have their own corporate identity in SoundDiver editor...

Jonathan: That makes sense, they control the image.

Michael: This cooperation usually results in an OEM version which is bundled with the unit. Then we get the ability to include the module in the full version.

Jonathan: Here is a different kind of question: Is it possible to use a common interface to control one parameter in two different synthesizers or devices? To build like a hypersynth?

Michael: Yes, you can do this with the new controller assignments because it can assign the same control to multiple parameters even on multiple devices.

Jonathan: Right, so I could have a PC1600x or one of the midi fader boxes, drag and drop a fader...

Michael: Not the PC1600 because it is not specifically supported. You would use the learn function for this.

Jonathan:: Right, so I could assign it, then I could have a whole ADSR on sliders right there controlling perhaps a layer or partial on a Roland synthesizer and a layer on a Kurzweil synthesizer at the same time.

Michael: Yes.

Jonathan: Excellent. Thats really cool. I'm going to jump around...what about the next version of MIDI? There are some other protocols floating around like USB, Firewire, and now Yamaha came out with this mLAN thing...

Michael: Its still MIDI. The software protocol and the hardware...its still the same software. Its the same command structure.

Jonathan: As far as the events go?

Michael: Yes.

Jonathan: So its still the original version of the midi protocol. Do you have any preferences for how things might be changed in the future?

Michael: Actually we have plans to...to at least...you mean in a general way? Or controlling external hardware or are you talking about (digital services)?

Jonathan: Controlling external hardware, the events, sequencing...

Michael: Sysex?

Jonathan: Yeah like the specification...

Michael: Actually I don't think we can change anything about it. I think the momentum needs to come from the hardware manufacturers. The discussion has been going on there for a long time and some people say its just old, but manufacturers say for most people its ok. So they say... as long as it works, don't fix it.

Jonathan: So...how long have you been with Emagic?

Michael: I started in 1987 and the first product was at that time C-Lab. The first product was Explorer 32, which was a librarian for the Roland D-10, D-20, D-50, D-550...and this ended up in Polyframe which was the first universal editor/librarian on the Atari. Then many of the C-LAB staff left and founded Emagic. So the first product was SoundDiver, no, SoundSurfer 1.2. It was 1993 or something and in 95 we had SoundDiver 1.5.

Jonathan: Excellent. You know, I have been on the mailing list for quite a while and you have a very active presence and are great with users for support...how do you find time to keep up with all the user communities, all the research and development you are involved with. And not only SoundDiver but you do other things at Emagic as well.

Michael: Yes. For example, it took me two years to make a new port of Logic Audio in Windows. The entire port. We threw out, we threw away the entire Logic Audio Windows dependent code...

Jonathan: You did the 16 to 32 bit...

Michael: Yes.

Jonathan: Oh my god.

Michael: (laughs) So I also did the Multiple Document Interface on Windows, also implemented the new menu structure... so on the Mac you see the key commands attached to the menus. Thats my stuff.

Jonathan: Wow thats cool. I had no idea...I thought for the most part you were pretty much tied to SoundDiver...

Michael: Oh and I also did the Unitor8 Control, the OMS driver for the Unitor8 and quality assurance for the MIDI interfaces. Actually my trick is, I'm using Eudora Pro for my email and I have some filters set which label all emails which contain soundDiver, Unitor...

Jonathan: To seperate them out...

Michael: All the unlabeled emails I just skip them. I don't have the time.

Jonathan: What kind of musical stuff do you do outside of emagic?

Michael: Well I used to play in a band a long time ago but I simply don't have the time. And I have a grand piano at home, but I don't have the time.

Jonathan: Thats terrible! Do you get out to see concerts?

Michael: Sometimes.

Jonathan: What do you like to see?

Michael: Oh, recently I saw the Flower Kings. You know them? Its Flower Kings, from Sweden. Its very nice music. And also Saga, you know Saga? From Canada, Toronto? Its another band I like. I also like Fusion like Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea.

Jonathan: Thats cool! Here's another off the wall question. You obviously have been around alot of synthesizers. Setting up interfaces to help users edit them...do you think, you know every company, every manufacturer has a little different approach to synthesis. Through the tools they make for musicians and sound designers...do you think there is such a thing as a universal synthesis? Curriculum, outlook or philosophy?

Michael: Actually I wrote a thesis for my computer science degree about using computers in making music. And also things like an analysis of the available synthesis possibilities for the computer. And there are so many different approaches. You know Csound?

Jonathan: Yes.

Michael: This is amazing.... now you get realtime systems which use Csound...it plays back in realtime...for which it took hours to generate the waveforms 10 years ago. So I don't think there will be anything which can cover them all. Either those academic systems like Kyma, you know Kyma?

Jonathan: Yes.

Michael: I mean its huge, but its just too complex. Or also there is a Korg product, the Oasys...

Jonathan: Yeah I talked to Dan Phillips yesterday...

Michael: Ok, this is also good. I mean it still not Kyma, but its a modular system which can command all the stuff...but you know its always...you always have to FOCUS on something. I think you have a performance keyboard which you can take with you on stage or you have an experimental system. I think its hard to combine both into one box.

Jonathan: That makes sense. I use things like Reaktor and I have also tried some other 'open' architecture synthesis systems and the Oasys project is kind of open but its kind of closed because they have their own team. They work on the models that users of the Oasys can then use. If someone wants to develop for them they can get their developer's kit and sign some agreements and stuff...but its definitely pretty interesting!

What about... remember about a year ago I sent you some mail asking about BeOS and Linux...alternate operating systems or possible platforms that Emagic could look into. Emagic has a history on the Mac and PC support for both platforms...totally fantastic. I was part of the BeOS beta program for a little bit until it became cancelled. Is there any activity in Emagic right now to explore some of the other possilities besides the Mac and windows?

Michael: Of course we are going to make our products compatible with Mac OS X because I think this is a must. And we also are going to make Logic available for Windows 2000. SoundDiver already is compatible with 2000 and also with NT 4.0. Regarding Linux...I think this is a very interesting platform. However, its still not a system for the average. Its still complicated to setup, as far as I know. Though there are some distributions which are easier to install. But I heard there are some real time audio systems running very well. And I think there are some projects going on...they are making drivers for Audiowerk and also for the Unitor8.

Jonathan: Wow, I was not aware of that!

Michael: I have had some contact with guys who have started this.

Jonathan: Thats great! Maybe with some of those realtime linux patches you could get some very low latency response...

Michael: Its possible.

Jonathan: Well, I could keep asking questions all day long but here we are at NAMM and everyone is very busy - time is short. Listen, thanks an awful lot for taking the time to do this interview and hopefully you will have a chance to stop by sonikmatter and see what our users are up to. Thanks!

Michael: Ok!

January 2001